Public sentiment is predominantly negative, reflecting strong anger and frustration towards Pakistan, which is perceived as the aggressor in military tensions with India. Users express skepticism about military effectiveness, emphasize a sense of superiority regarding India's military, and call for action against Pakistan. This sentiment is fueled by historical narratives of conflict and a deep-rooted animosity, with many commenters advocating for accountability and expressing fears that political posturing could escalate tensions further. Overall, the comments showcase a desire for resolution, albeit amid a landscape marked by mockery and significant animosity.

India

Pakistan

Afghanistan

sealy628

Doesnt this happen all the time. I always hear that “tensions are escalating.”

sadbecausebad

The question is: is the world going to care about it? It's not like Jews are involved here... Is it not how the tens now goes? No Jews, no news?

Sean_HEDP-24

Pakistan does not have a navy. What they have is a bunch of some borrowed frigates and 2 borrowed submarines.

puran_poli_pirate

Where is the guy blabbering about how he should receive the nobel prize because he “solved” this conflict? Job not done!!!

Emotional_Gazelle_37

Inside_Finish3422

No…just talk.  They will march special to emphasize their anger(s).

watching_whatever

Pakistan is a mosquito of a country compared to India. We are too busy competing with China.

slow_cheatah

Those drilles misfired themselves again this time?🤣🤣🤣

anupvadhul

![gif](giphy|QdjjW71YLrzWg)

The psyop games have begun. The cold war lol.... We are in the level where people are able to access more available time then ever humanly possible. There is no war, but the same level of awareness is there.

TechBored0m

Why not just stop supporting terrorists ? How difficult is that?

Suitable_Box8583

Alone-Ad-8902

&gt;Is this another SE Asia flashpoint between India and Pakistan?

Only on days that end in ‘y’.

zackks

So we can add this to the long list of conflicts “strongman” Trump didn’t stop. They got a Nobel War Prize?

Unabashable

themightyade

Which inbred will win? Put your bets in the comment section.

Capital-Desk5029



🔗 **Bypass paywalls**:

* [www.reddit.com](https://archive.is/submit/?submitid=&amp;url=https://www.reddit.com/r/GeopoliticsIndia/comments/1kyv9so/military_strategy_and_spend_of_pakistan_simply/)

 

**📜 Community Reminder**: Let’s keep our discussions civil, respectful, and on-topic. Abide by the subreddit rules. Rule-violating comments will be removed.

❓ Questions or concerns? [Contact our moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/GeopoliticsIndia).

GeoIndModBot

havent your post already answered your question? when you are a smaller region next to a huge country, what you gonna do? :)    
Nuke is a good deterrent for now as things stand.   
  
indian paranoia in pakistan makes much more sense than indians getting paranoid about pakistanis..which actually is the case.  
  
pakistan has not been doing well economically for the last many many years. but as long as big powers need pakistan to play it with india, pakistan shall exist :D  similar to foreign investment within indian IT :D

revovivo

1. Don't consider Pakistan a country but a Military controlled region.
2. During the cold war US bought the sovereignty of Pakistan because they understood that geographically Pakistan has access to port and porous border towards central and south asia.
3. After the cold war the US EU made Pakistan as a depot and distributor of arms &amp; ammo through black market and international funds.
4. As Israel and Russia got engaged. US EU also bought trained terrorists as private mercenaries. 
5. As India is objecting international funds. They need another channel to send money to Pak military. Now you can connect why the US had a crypto deal with Pak last week.
6. Pakistan is an important asset of the west military and India is an adversary so the west will protect Pakistan at all costs. 
7. Now India has only one option, decapitating Pakistan military assets. Follow the locations India strikes in Op Sindoor. It was a clear message to the west that their assets are vulnerable.

BlueAlpha29

It's all about money and Keeping the army in power.


Bigger budgets mean more money for corruption, and making India as a enemy diverts local population attention from actually demanding economic reforms.


So the army stays in power and more money to military means more money for their Generals pockets.

MaleficentPassionn

Finally a good analytical piece, was getting tired of the China newsletters

Lordgondrak

From the interviews, especially of Defence Minister Khwaja Asif, it looks they have put all their eggs in the basket of nuclear threat.

Also, putting more emphasis on offensive kind of align with the age old ideology of offensive takeover of Kashmir, and nowadays with giving reply back to India in case of the escalations.

srmndeep

Nothing about Pakistan's economic or military strategy has ever made sense since its formation. The military dominates the economy and govt budget, and both the military and the govt run propaganda campaigns to convince the population that India is out to get them, just so they can justify their enormous military budget and corruption. All the while, the govt and military know fully well that India would never attack Pakistan unilaterally, but a war can only be initiated - again to justify their budget - by a Pakistani overt or covert act and hence their military equipment is geared towards offense and not defense. Make no mistake, it's a fine tuned business model and well oiled machine that's been running Pakistan to the ground bit by bit since 1947.

disc_jockey77

That's a great write-up OP. I believe there is no way to explain the logic of madness and madness it is. I have gone into some detail on this in another post that I made about the same time as you, maybe it might answer some things for you. Warning: it's a bit lengthy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GeopoliticsIndia/comments/1kyob52/pakistans_aspirations_between_mughal_legacy_and/mv0qgb9/

MaffeoPolo

If they spend most on defensive assets then in case of war they have to fight a defensive war and defensive war is essentially a battle of attrition which they cannot win in any case so that strategy is useless. Whereas an offence heavy strategy is a good deterrent against a peace loving country like India because we are never the aggressors and more interested in keeping our citizens/assets safe.

cQurious_guy

Pakistan doesn't plan on fighting a conventional war in the first place. 

See, their nuclear doctrine is to bomb Indian units pushing into Pakistani doctrine. They're not there just for MAD but also to force external intervention if it comes to war. 

1971 prove that they cannot tak Kashmir with force hence asymmetrical warfare. Sponsoring terrorism, black money, taking China's support etc.

Their strategy is by esentially trying to poke us and destabilise parts of India constantly and the conventional military exists to try to scare us from going all in whether it be through the threat of nuclear strikes or setting up military installations near civilians to force us to back down.

I assume the reason the air force is geared for offensives is for shock and awe tactics. They are also an option to deliver nuclear weapons outside of ICBMs especially since they don't have a nuclear triad like we do.

It's also ideological and to keep the army in power. They use India as an excuse to hold political power and many in the command structure are related to various terrorists.

It is fundamentally illogical to some extent. Our other neighbours aren't afraid of us using our military despite their own geographic vulnerabilities but we can't deny that the India's ability to dam their lifeline and the little strategic depth that they have will lead to paranoia.

Nomustang

You have answered your own question. It is precisely Paxtan’s lack of strategic depth and geographical limitations that they have chosen to focus more on offensive weapons. The thinking behind this is that it will create deterrence against Indian adventurism more effectively than defensive weapons could. 

Pakistan’s military doctrine has undergone a transition over the past few decades, evolving from a conventional attrition-based approach to a strategy centered on asymmetric warfare, with corresponding adjustments in strategic planning and budgetary allocations. [Admiral Sawhney would disagree with this, I think, claiming both militaries have similar doctrines.]

telephonecompany

Yes but the world was what happened in may 2025,india lost its jets in a battle that they started themselves. You can't deny it cause your military official have said it on media that it was a tactical mistake.

egknight46

For some reason, I've always felt their country should be called “Windia” instead of “India.”

max38576

Where is this "detailed account" you speak of?

frigg_off_lahey

If that's the mentality of IAF leaders, they got no future. I would clap my hands if i were a pakistani

rainersss

Dawg pakistan doesn't even operate C130J 😂

Bright_Thanks_2277

Nice comment section you've got here, it'd be a shame if 2.5 billion dudes showed up here

mid_modeller_jeda

Are there still people on this planet who believe what Indian military says? 

Other than the Indians, of course, who cling to every word the India military says like gospels...

Skywalker7181

I suppose claiming that they blew up the President's office  in Islamabad would be too much of a stretch.

CenkIsABuffalo

This shit is particularly funny considering India is an absolutely impenetrable fortress of a nation - surrounded by massive oceans or the tallest, most impassible mountains in the world, except for the like 40ft Khyber Pass. 

Yet they got invaded and conquered by basically every army since 1,500 BC. Absolute world-record historic losing streak despite your massive advantages in defense and manpower.

All it has done is develop this national strain of hyper-copium where getting beaten up and thrown in the shit-pit repeatedly is actually a secret masterplan that means you've got the enemy exactly where you want them.

JoJoeyJoJo

Pakistan said a few months ago that if they have the ability, they can ask a third party to count the number of fighter jets, but the Indian government has not responded so far.

FeeCommercial2304

The Indian government is willing to talk about how many Pakistani planes got shot down, but refuse to confirm how many Indian planes got shot down. Don't Indians see how stupid this makes them look? 

It would have made more sense for the Indian government to just stop talking about it, and just move on. At this point, the only reason why anybody is still reporting on this, is because the Indians won't shut up about it.

xibeno9261

It is worth mentioning that the French Air Force chief mentioned the loss of Rafale and Mirage, while Pakistan’s loss is only mentioned by India itself. And it did not even mention which aircraft.

If: India claims something


I will: believe the opposite of that claim.

Moseying-on-reddit

If F-16s were destroyed the Americans would have made a big deal out of it.

Clangokkuner

And then India become Akhand Bharat, and every dude has a bootiful 🧃waifu, since its promised to them 3000 years ago. /s

False_Win_5874

Indian air force is on copium again lol. If IAF destroyed so many PAF jets and lost nothing, why you are now asking to buy more Rafale lmao.

tigeryi98

Interesting they didn't claim J-10C downed - more believable than F16 which due to US restrictions was on second line patrol

No-Estimate-1510

The fact that Pakistan has essentially won the Public Relations/diplomatic side of the skirmish last summer and how a majority of people around the world seem to be more willing to believe and lend an ear to their side of the story is an extremely interesting phenomenon. Now i'm not speaking from a position of partisan pro-Pakistani sentiment. I understand quite well that the terrorist attack in Kashmir that kicked off this skirmish was both vile and done by Pakistan-backed groups, Pakistan's military dictatorship is a quite crappy government, and the Pakistani government (aka the military)'s claims of downing 5 or 6 Indian fast jets seems like an exaggeration. However it seems more or less like an established fact that Pakistan has emerged as having at least portrayed itself as being the more credible and trustworthy source of information. the Modi government has REALLY stumbled in its obscuring of their own side of the story, attempted falsehoods and delays in disclosing any solid information or hard evidence. But the fact that a quite undemocratic quasi-fascist government has come out on top in the war for information and public opinion is just really weird. Is it because people are sick of Indian chest-thumping nationalists or does it go deeper than that?

CountKeyserling

When u compare budget, population and quality. Paks the pound for pound champion

No_Doctor_219

AwarenessNo4986

That not how u compare military strength...

Mystery-Snack

[deleted]

This just proves how if a full on war happens both sides will have a massive number of deaths it will be a loss for both countries and humanity. Also our army is blessed with the fact that they are not afraid of death and majority of Pakistani men are also ready to fight and embrace martyrdom. Can’t say that about India

FAT-OOF

These numbers mean very little in the real world. 

Pakistani military has developed an in-house armed complex and capabilities on a very small budget, which is very impressive. Pakistan is on track to become an arms dealer in the region, something India long ago tried but hasn't succeeded so far. 

Example: India tried selling Tejas to African states but failed miserably. However, Pakistan has sold JF17 to African states.

India and even European nations could not pull this off with their huge military budgets. 

Pakistan has helped China and Turkey develop their military programs by providing them with real time battle experience. The JF17 and Turkey's drone program were developed with war veteran Pakistani pilots. 

Pakistan's military equipment is mostly in-house and completely integrated while India has problems integrating NATO tech with Russian tech. 

Pakistan's missile program is one of the best and most accurate in the world. India's missile program is kind of shaky. 

India relies on American, Israeli, and European support in the war giving rise to logistical problems. Pakistan relies on China for support meaning very little logistics problems and China is in the neighborhood. India can be placed under a blockade from all sides. 

And don't even get started on the black market network that Pakistan developed during the nuclear program days. You will see even North Korea participating in the war and many other countries through different channels.

hashtaq2

I wish Allah Grant us a General like Khalid Bin waleed RA , we would be invincible

Sajidullahbaig

Look at the size difference of both countries too. India has troops all across the country so even if an all-out war broke out between both countries, not all of these troops would take part in it.

molecules7

I think morale can make the biggest difference.
WAR has always been one of the core part of Islamic history.

omii71

Bro, update your numbers for Pakistan; the figures are outdated.

Total_Commercial5347

Puzzleheaded-Sand883

AbdurRahmanSaeed

It also matters what that equipment is. India doesn't have f'16s I think.

AstaraArchMagus

this isnt a fair comparison since unlike india most of our troops are battle tested in either Waziristan or other tribal areas/afghan boarder and UN peace keeping missions we are the 4th largest contributor and unlike indian samosas our airforce is also one of the best and most professional in the word as we have seen time and again my only problem with our army is the navy or the lack there of I personally would rather us have submarines then a pure surface fleet

ReaperPlaysYT

In most categories they are twice or 2.5 times us

Ok-Appearance-1652

[Pakistan do not have any Destroyers](https://www.wdmmw.org/pakistan-navy.php). They are all frigates. There are 9 of them in total.

YearEightyEight

For all the DCS nerds, this should be a lesson that real life is far from even the most “accurate” sim and that you can’t push for the dogfight because long range BVR missiles will eat you alive.

Likewise, another lesson we’ve been reminded of is that high quality weapons and technology can only get you so far. I don’t believe India’s shortfalls were in inferior aircraft and AA systems, but rather poor battle planning. I know the Meteor is a seriously dangerous missile and IAF has them for their rafales, but neither side has provided any evidence that meteors were fired. 

My laymans theory is that India wasn’t planning on such a large and effective wave of interceptors and hoped widespread strike aircraft would overwhelm their defenses and eliminate the need for fighter cover.

Environmental-Rub933

I think the layman takeaway is that comparing fighters, missiles, drones, and radars is ultimately a  naive consumerist approach to military strategy that overlooks far more important factors such as the strategic objectives of the nations involved, the training of their personnel, and the potential outcomes if they achieve or fail to achieve their objectives.

From my western perspective, the big India Pakistan Showdown of 2025 was like watching two teenagers try to figure out third base from the front of a Nissan Sentra , as described in various different texts from friends of either of the participants, or strangers that weren’t even there.

I think most militaries appreciate the lethality of even outdated platforms, and for anyone to write off Chinese, French, Russian, Pakistani, Indian military equipment based on a limited conflict, would be less useful than treating it as a datapoint closely tied to the conflict itself.

ColHRFrumpypants

Gen 4 is inferior no matter how many pluses or decimals you put on them. Good radar and missiles will kill them 150km+ away.

If you are US ally then get F-35 otherwise buy J-35. This is for major powers, poor nations should probably stick with Gen 4.

Suspicious_Loads

I would like to point out that there is a large amount of Russian gear on the Indian side and a lot of Western gear on the Pakistani side. For instance Pakistan AEW was the SAAB 2000 and GCI has many TPS-77 family of radars a Lockheed product. India had S300 and S400 and also P700 based BrahMos which was abot their most effective tool.

So it isn't just China v West as many think.

That said some things.

1. For Europeans, its very disheartening that the Rafale, pretty much the premier Euro fighter aircraft got shot down by what is Chinas 4 or 5th best\* plane. And not just shot donw, shot down, when SPECTRA was engaged, at *very* long range (almost 200 km) and at low altitude, it should have been simple to survive, but it didn't. Europe missed the fifth gen boat, it has to hit the 6 gen one,

2. BVR is not the future, it is the now. Lots of BVR kills in Ukraine, the 2019 Indo-Pak clashes also saw kills at BVR ranges. Ditto datalinks.

3. If you lose EW war you lose the whole thing. Indians despite having a lot of very good plattforms on paper, weren't able to get a single effective shot out, not this time nor in 2019. Sine PAF  EW was superb. 

4. Training, realistic training is essential. There is a very good video by a French Eternand and Rafale piloyt whom pointed out the PAF has been having multoi national and bilateral exersizes for a decade now. Shaheen series with China, Indus Shield with ME and Gulf states. 

5. Lots of unknowables (though I suspect the intel agencies do know them).There is a lot of gaps in knowing the true capabilities of the J10C and JF17 BLKIII. There have been some statements from PAF pver the past few years that these aircraft have a lot of AI built in. But thats about all, how much, to what extent is unknown.

\*CAC-Chengdu insist the J10C is behind only the J20 in capability, we do know that J10C had lts of the technology developed for J20, the HUD and HMD are two things which have been revealed, but there might be others. OTH this may be a snipe at Shenyang.

aaronupright

Absolutely, the 2025 IAF–PAF exchange was a watershed moment, especially from an air combat learning perspective. What stands out most is how a smaller air force with fewer resources leveraged doctrine, integration, and precision to dominate a technically larger adversary. This wasn’t just about a Rafale getting shot down,  though that’s huge on its own. It was also about how Mirage 2000, MiG-29, and likely even a Su-30MKI were neutralized in a BVR environment without a single successful missile release from the Indian side. That’s tactical control of the battlespace.

Western analysts should be paying very close attention to how the PAF employed a networked air doctrine: J-10Cs/JF17's with PL-15s, coordinated with AWACS, electronic warfare, and secure datalinks (Link-17) to create a kill box. Even a platform like the JF-17 which on paper might seem inferior to a Rafale or Su-30MKI becomes deadly when plugged into a well-drilled, real-time combat network. With that kind of ecosystem, it’s not far-fetched to say a JF-17 can go mano a mano with a Rafale.

The old thinking, that Chinese systems are just “bad copies”, doesn’t hold anymore. These platforms may not look revolutionary on paper, but in execution, they’re lethal, agile, and integrated. This conflict showed that superiority isn’t just about hardware; it’s about how you use it. The IAF had excellent aircraft, but they weren’t able to operate in contested airspace. That’s the headline.

How important getting the first shot in an air battle is.
Stealth aircrafts are as lethal as they are because they always have the advantage of the first shot against non stealth aircrafts.
Iaf was told not to fire at millitary assets and judging by the wreckage Rafales for some reason did not carry meteor missiles and multiple pl15s were fired at each aircraft.
If you have multiple aesa guided missiles fired at you one by one you are toast, no matter the aircraft, even an F35 would have struggled in that scenario.
Also Iaf planes seems to have got hit not far from their respective air bases ,so my hunch is the Iaf planes were preparing to land and paf planes held their missiles for a while to give them a false sense of security and then when the time came paf went for the lock and launched missiles one by one.

Zealousideal_Rock984

I agree that Chinese equipment was underrated. Much like Chinese cars once were, but no more. Especially their J-10's have showcased their ability. Bangladesh Air force is now looking to purchase J-10's. Indonesian Air Force have apparently cancelled or put their Rafale orders on hold.

What can be learned here is that China is the new Russia in the east or even better. Atleast as far as fighter jets are concerned. 

Although I still believe, there has never been a better fighter jet made than the F-22. Nothing comes close yet.
Wonder if US will eventually market the F-22's at some point in the future

phoeebsy

Is there anything to learn ? I mean fundamentally . Even though the details aren't known , a quick recollection of possible events would show that what happened wasn't anything really radical nor unknown . The importance of networking , AWACS and EW is not something that came from this conflict- it was always known .

Though what the west *will* learn is not to trust any Indian journalist ever lol.

CorneliusTheIdolator

Isn’t India’s refusal to perform SEAD and refusing to first target military installations for the sake of avoiding a major escalation a huge factor in perceived losses?

Pakistan had plenty of time to prepare for any Indian strike, and Indian fighters were sent into prepared defences, so, this conflict was not in any way indicative of either the rafale or the Indian military in an actual conflict.

Ok_Calendar7116

You will learn how to distinguish nationalities online. Those who talk about air battles are Pakistani and people from other countries, and those who talk about airbase and ground strikes are Indians. No surprise that Pakistan and India wants to talk about narrative that beneficial to them, but it’s interesting the global narrative aligned more with Pakistan. 

1. Air battle is inherently more interesting than striking ground targets, because air assets are most propaganday things in any country’s arsenal, leading to their loss becomes the most visible topic. 

2. Air battles themselves are rare in modern ages, and US, France, China is watching closely for intelligence. For India, this is true as well. The most priced thing for them is the PL-15 missile debris, a few holes in runway and collapsed buildings are just propaganda face points.

loned__

A barrage of missiles will wreck your airbases, something China has plenty of to counter US airbases

Usual-Ad-4986

You can learn to put some fucking respect to the PLA name

defl3ct0r

With as little information about the event and with the sample size of one, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from it all. There are so many things that could go wrong in any singular engagement, that it's difficult to say that a system as complex as a fighter jet is now good/bad because of it. When it comes to modern air combat that is a nightmarish web of technologies, human factors such as training and countless other potential points of failure.

Single Rafale being downed could be explained by any of the following and more: Differences in training, maintenance, interconnection with third support systems, issues with communication and coordination, unexpected weather/terrain conditions causing a blindspot with one of the numerous technologies involved, design flaws of the plane itself etc. All jet fighters are fickle and overengineered by nature, with systems stacked on top of systems that don't have great error tolerances even with text book perfect maintenance standards.

In general, when it comes to jet fighter era air engagements something not going wrong would be the rarity. Things going wrong don't always end up in a downed plane, but especially when it comes to these one-off skirmishes where a lot of people are doing things in a real combat setting for the first time - all these factors can easily stack up and lead to visible plunders where one of them would not be enough to end in a loss, but three or four of them together would. Fighter jets of all types and origin fall down quite routinely during training exercises etc even when performed by nations we know for a fact know what they are doing regarding the technology, training and maintenance.

Rugged and simple jet fighter is almost an oxymoron. Even the relatively simple and robust ones are finicky over engineered princesses one needs to constantly pamper and even then they will sometimes randomly throw a hissy fit and fall apart without warning. Thanks to the nature of the technology itself. One really needs a comprehensive dataset to draw statistical conclusions from it all, which often isn't possible until there is a large scale war with dozens of losses.

Technically a bit about the effectiveness of kill-chains and datalinks. But to my knowledge there’s no evidence for India actually using air-to-air missiles which is an extremely important factor in analyzing this engagement. Little can be gauged about missile performance but PL-15s being generally capable of intercepting modern aircraft (not even the effectiveness for lack of accurate information on launch parameters, amount of ammunition dispensed and energy state of the aircraft intercepted).
Did I miss anything in the flood of misinformation and propaganda by both sides?

Live_Menu_7404

fearless truck marvelous nose automatic middle sip spotted rinse fanatical

 *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

Do not trust the data of chinese weapons in western/russian games, they are wrong.

CureLegend

They are definitely very interested in how the large defense formation was formed and how there was no friendly fire amongst them. Not publicized but AMRAAM boys and gals are very happy with another kill

DemonLordRoundTable

1. In a near peer conflict, drones will not win you the war.
2. It's possible for 2 nuclear countries to have short conventional conflict with clearly defined objectives without any significant risk of MAD.
3. It's important to understand the conflict beyond the brand of jet shot down. If Pakistani airforce using Chinese equipment was really that effective to have completely routed the Indians on night of 7-8th May, why were they unable to stop drone strikes on 8-9th, and airstrikes (Rafale - scalp and Sukhoi 30 - Brahmos) on 9th-11th May across several of their airbases (which resulted in several aircrafts loss on the ground). Did they run out of PL15s on the first day?

the_good_indian

Pakistanis are legit just spamming this sub with ChatGPT analysis and Chinese money. Pretending to ask questions out of curiosity as military enthusiasts while preloaded with Paki propaganda.

Damn ! No matter what Paki military accomplishments are, they definitely are shockingly good at propaganda.

chefexecutiveofficer

Pakistan's Army Chief has issued warnings against India, escalating military tensions as both countries navigate complex regional conflicts.

Pakistan-India Military Tensions

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

Highlighted Comments

Parties Involved

What the people want